School me Oppos, Fox Body Mustangs

"Pixel" (Improbcat) 11/28/2016 at 14:10 • Filed to: None

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While realistically it wouldn’t happen til spring at the earliest, I’ve been getting obsessed with the idea of a rough & ready Mustang for bombing around in.

All pics are cars for sale locally, this is 2.3 5-spd car for $1200 that I actually like the look of.

I want something simple and light, with decent suspension/brakes/tires, a manual trans, and enough power to get up and move. I have no plans to make it pretty or “nice” so I can try rallycross, autocross, drifting, etc. without a care for it.

another 2.3L 5-spd, this one for $1100. I actually like the lighter look of the non-GT cars.

In a perfect world I’d love to do this with a ‘65/’66 coupe, but non-rotted examples of those are few and far between in New England at beater prices. So I have been looking at fox-body Mustangs. They seem to tick the same boxes of simple & light, with lots of parts availability. And most are old enough to qualify for “classic” status which means easier time with state inspections.

Epic interior on a beige ‘81

So School me. Are these chassis a decent basis for a all-rounder mild hoonmobile? Is the lego-like swappability of suspension/brakes/drivetrain actually as easy as Mustang guys make it seem?

T- tops are epic, the v6 & auto less so.

It also seems like 2.3L cars go for basically pennies and are a lot less beat than their V8 brethren at the bottom of the market. Is it worth getting one of these at all? I know long term it would need proper heavier duty steering/suspension/brakes and either a turbo or more cylinders. But are they any fun as-is to start?

This Capri has a bad motor, but I was amused by his chosen method to block the plate.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:18

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My dad’s friend has a 92 he uses as a drift car. It is lots of fun however the seats are garbage. You better have something to hang on to.

Nonster > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:22

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I’m a fan of the fox bodies. I almost picked one up for the same purpose as you so I did a bit of digging on what they need. If I were you, I’d try to find a V8 one with a solid motor and as clean of a body as you can. The suspension on these sucked when new and age will have done it no favors so I’d use most of my budget on suspension and chassis upgrades.

At least get subframe connectors, all new bushings, ball joints, tie rods, etc., and a rear panhard bar.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/ I’ve heard good things about these guys

Urambo Tauro > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:26

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Are these chassis a decent basis for a all-rounder mild hoonmobile? Is the lego-like swappability of suspension/brakes/drivetrain actually as easy as Mustang guys make it seem?

Yeah, they’re fairly easy to wrench on, so long as you don’t end up with a really rusty example. Availability of parts is the real highlight, and because of that, you can tune it for just about anything.

Rock Bottom > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:27

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I’ve driven dozens of these, lots of my friends have had them (many still own them), so I’m by no means an expert, but I’ve traded plenty of knuckle skin with the Fox.

Don’t buy a 2.3 car unless you are coming from a dump truck. They are absolutely depressing to drive, and swapping to a V8 (which every 2.3 owner says he’s planning) isn’t very cost effective. You need to change the trans and rear end, as well as the engine. And turbocharging the non-turbo engine is a bad idea. A few people have done it, but they never seem to live very long.

That being said, any V8 Fox will be a riot. They are all over the place when you get on the gas, but that’s kind of the idea, isn’t it?! Subframe connectors are cheap and easy (like my women), and a cheap half-cage probably isn’t a terrible idea. I really wouldn’t want to crash one of these...

Buy a ratty 5.0, replace all the bushings with poly, weld in some cheap Chinese subframe connectors, and have a riot. Do it!

EDIT: If you like the “lighter look” of the 2.3 cars, look for a 5.0 LX instead of a GT. Less plastic on the outside, same motor/trans/rear end on the inside.

TysMagic > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:30

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My first car was a 5.0 foxbody. Positively awful first car. Hella death trap, no air bags/abs/like driving on a slip n slide in even the smallest amount of rain...I’ll go further, driving over spit is like driving on a road made of oil.
However it does all the things you describe quite well.

camaroboy68ss > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:31

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My honest opinion on the fox body is that it’s a pile of junk. The early foxes had bad brake systems(my mom had a 79 that the brakes failed causing her to get Tboned) while the 5.0 sounds good these cars were like an old muscle car and were about straight lines only compared to its rival the Camaro. The third gen Camaro/firebird are a much better handling car stock vs stock to a fox. Also the market is flooded with V8 examples. You can find RS Camaros dirt cheap with the 305 TBI. It doesn’t take much to wake a SBC up. The flaw in those cars is the manual tranny. They were the weak link.

Rock Bottom > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/28/2016 at 14:33

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Yeah, you really gotta get seats in these things. The stock ones are typical 80s/90s American chairs, which somehow manage to be both uncomfortable AND unsupportive!

Future next gen S2000 owner > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:38

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Fox bodies are a platform, aftermarket and parts galore to build whatever your budget allows. Mechanically straight forward for the most part. Stay away from the first year they used fuel injection as it didn’t have a MAF, so tuning is a pain. Youtube can help you with how-to’s since the built the fox for so long. I’ve always wondered what the base 2.3 would be like with an aftermarket turbo.

Personal recommendation follows. Feel free to ignore.

If your budget can swing is, upgrade to the SN-95. You can keep the 5.0 if your heart desires (94) or go 4.6(95 and +). Better sorted suspension from the factory(still not good), parts are readily available. Better brakes. Most of the hardware is bolt on changes from 94-04. So your ceiling is higher using factory stuff.

jimz > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:38

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does it have to be a Mustang? because Ford used the Fox platform for a lot. If it was me I’d do an ‘86-’88 Thunderbird or Cougar; it can take a lot of Mustang parts.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Rock Bottom 11/28/2016 at 14:39

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

....that’s kind of the idea, isn’t it?!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:39

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They’re Vanilla Ice endorsed, which I regard as critically important for some reason.

Pixel > jimz 11/28/2016 at 14:40

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I don’t like the look of the thunderbird/cougar, so the weight penalty isn’t worth it to me. I’d be very tempted if I could find a fairmont wagon though...

Kanaric > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:42

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There are better cars and chassis. You have to want a fox body mustang to justify a fox body mustang. Otherwise I believe they are overrated.

E36 M3 for example is a better car all around if you are looking at 80s/90s cars. I am not even a BMW fan. I picked Nissan Skyline GTS-T which would run circles around this but they are too expensive now and parts availability is poor vs a E36. There are tons of options.

If you have a massive budget you can make a great fox body, like Matt Farah did, but then it stops being a budget car. Meanwhile you could pay someone to LS swap a 240SX or pick up a C4 and still end up ahead.

CobraJoe > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:43

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Foxbodies are awesome. I’ve owned 4 (and one SN95).

They are pretty light and fun to hoon around with, but the V8 versions are quick to snap around if the conditions aren’t favorable (read: Slick surfaces or unseen bumps). There are ways to make it less snap happy, but you can also get used to it if you know when it’s coming.

4cyl or 6cyl versions can be made to run as well as a V8 version, but the brakes are small, the rear end is a 7.5in instead of the near bulletproof 8.8in, the shocks and springs are less stiff, and while you can make that 2.3L into a monster, it’s pretty tame in stock condition. (The ‘79 Mustang 2.3L that was my first car made a whopping 75hp). I believe the T5 in the 4cyl versions is just as strong as the V8 versions, but you might want to double check that.

If you’re looking at stock V8s, they first offered the 5 speed manual part way through ‘83 (four speed before that). 4bbl carb and roller cam in ‘85, speed density EFI in ‘86, better heads in ‘87, MAF fuel injection in ‘89, and then it didn’t really change much until the 4.6L came in ‘96. The 5.0 is a pretty easy engine to work on, a GT40 style intake and GT40P heads off an explorer are fairly cheap, and the stock HO cam will support a lot of upgrades.

Parts swappability isn’t quite up to lego standards, Ford liked to change small things from year to year. However, there will be a better version from a different or newer Ford for nearly everything you would want to upgrade, and there’s a ton of knowledge out there for what actually fits and what years you need to source from. (13in Cobra rotors will fit, but you need the spindles, hubs, lower control arms, banjo fittings, master cylinder, and 17in wheels to make it all work right, and somewhere someone has made a complete list of what you need).

BTW, you don’t necessarily have to stick to Mustangs to get the Foxbody bonus. Thunderbird, Cougar, Fairmont, Zephyr, Mark VII, LTD and Granada were all on the Fox platform at one time. Granted, it can complicate the whole swappability issue (Thunderbirds are a bit wider and longer than the Mustang, but it just means you use a different year of SN95 suspension parts and have to modify exhausts to make mustang catbacks work), but they often are far cheaper than the Mustang version.

Any way you go, I heartily approve of the foxbody as a project.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Nonster 11/28/2016 at 14:43

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Maximum Motorsports is good. American Muscle as well.

Griggs is top shelf suspension for racing. I don’t know if MM holds up to sustained track day abuse.

CobraJoe > Nonster 11/28/2016 at 14:44

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Definitely get subframe connectors, even if you only plan to drive it slowly on the street.

Foxes had a lot of flex, and bolt in subframe connectors eliminated a lot of squeaks on my old ‘86 GT.

Rock Bottom > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/28/2016 at 14:46

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CobraJoe > Rock Bottom 11/28/2016 at 14:49

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The 7.5in rear end will hold up to more abuse than some people assume, but I would suggest to have a replacement 8.8in available if you start drag racing with sticky tires.

And doesn’t the T5 in the 4cyl work with a V8?

Pixel > Kanaric 11/28/2016 at 14:54

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I’m looking at a total budget price for car purchase and at least the first 2-3 years worth of parts/upgrades at under $5K. Your suggestions are well above that just for the purchase price.

CobraJoe > camaroboy68ss 11/28/2016 at 14:55

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Foxbody cars can be made to handle with some suspension changes (I’ve been wanting to try building my own torque tube rear suspension on my Thunderbird before I sold it), the engine wakes up just as easily as an SBC (without the breathing problems the 305 has), and the transmission is absolutely not the weak link.

A 3rd gen F body is certainly a decent alternative option to a Fox, but it is not inherently better as a project racer.

jimz > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 14:57

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fair enough. I just like slightly different things. I’d recommend an early Capri like a ‘79 or ‘80, but there are probably very few left.

Rock Bottom > CobraJoe 11/28/2016 at 15:13

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You might be right, I really don’t know much about the T5. Maybe it’ll live? Then again, even at stock power levels and reasonable levels of abuse, the T5 isn’t exactly know for it’s durability... at least they’re cheap!

Pixel > jimz 11/28/2016 at 15:14

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I like the Capris, though I have a slight preference for coupe over hatchback and haven’t been able to find out if the capri came in coupe form.

CobraJoe > Rock Bottom 11/28/2016 at 15:18

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I’ve never heard that they were weak at stock power levels, the syncros would wear out prematurely if abused, but that’s every manual transmission.

jimz > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 15:24

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nope, hatch only.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 15:28

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A Fox is a great place to start for what you want to do. If you’re interested in swapping the motor, a 4 banger isn’t a terrible idea...the factory v8 cars in your price range have been beat to shit, so some people would rather start with a 2.3 car than a 5.0.

Weak points: strut towers (rot) and floorboards (rot and just good old fashioned deformation). And try to avoid sunroof cars, the drains get plugged and they rot...t-top cars however are surprisingly watertight. Oh, and the doors rattle on all of them, so don’t base a purchase on it.

Strong points: AFTERMARKET. If you need it, somebody makes it. Buy a car with the interior stripped out and all the hardware missing (like my recent ‘86 notchback)? Full interior hardware kits are available. They built tons, so used parts are cheap and abundant. Also, head to Pick N Pull in Johnston...they’ve got like 5 95-97 Explorers, pull the GT40 heads and intake and bolt on 50hp for $100.

As a beater project, the Fox Mustang simply has no equal. You can make it do ANYTHING.

Pixel > jimz 11/28/2016 at 15:32

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Maybe I’ll put a Capri nose on a Mustang. That could be even funnier if it is a later Stang with the earlier Capri nose.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 15:32

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WOOOO LET’S PARTY LIKE THE 80'S IN SOME FOX CAPRI’S!

Ok, the Capri is obviously the better choice. Rare, fun, same mechanicals as the Ford for easy parts. Very budget friendly too.

As you may know I just bought an 82 Capri RS 5.0 4 speed for RallyX. Is it the fastest method of going through a RallyX course in RWD? No. Is it going to be one of the most fun for the least cash? Yes.

79-82 was the flat hatch, after that it was bubble trouble time. Couldn’t find a good price on one of those though. Notch back on the Mustang is actually better for racing because lighter. If you’re planning on having track tires/wheels and transporting without a trailer get a hatch so you can load your tires/wheels in the back!

I took the Capri out this weekend and was driving around and god damn was it fun. I was on a backroad doing about 45 and downshifted from 3 to 2 and it planted me in the seat and all of a sudden I was doing 70. It’s fast with minor easy changes, mine has an upgraded intake/carb, dual flowmasters, sub frame ties and a strut tower brace.

And all that with upgrades and NO rust on it (in Michigan somehow...well I bought it in Ohio - no better) for 3 grand even and a clean title. Going to get an extra set of wheels for winter/offroad tires tomorrow night for 100 bucks and then I just need tires and it’s off to the RallyX events.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Rock Bottom 11/28/2016 at 15:34

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I have been in a lot of different race cars from rally cars, to track cars, to karts, and drifting still caught me off guard with how violent it is. It looks so smooth and majestic from the outside but you are being thrown all over the place inside the car during the transitions. I did a bunch of ride alongs in the Mustang and the first run I almost ended up pulling the handbrake with my ass.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > CobraJoe 11/28/2016 at 15:40

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T5 will work on the V8.

I’ll let everyone know how the 7.5 holds up I’m planning a few rally’s with my 7.5.....I also plan on getting an 8.8 to rebuild asap in case the 7.5 goes BOOM.

Rock Bottom > CobraJoe 11/28/2016 at 15:41

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I’ve knocked gears out of T5s in a Turbo Coupe twice. The first trans was original (maybe 75,000 miles when I lost third), and the second was a junk yard trans of unknown provenance that lost first (if I remember, that was like 15 years ago). I certainly wasn’t nice to it, but it wasn’t a powerful car. I’d write that off as the “Rock Bottom Effect”, were it not for the fact that I’ve had to remove broken T5s from probably 5 or 6 other Foxes over the last 20 years! Hell, I know where there’s a very noisy T5 in a 302-powered Volvo about 1,000 feet from me right now! No idea how much power that thing makes, though.

Rock Bottom > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 11/28/2016 at 15:42

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That’s awesome! I must try this...

CobraJoe > Rock Bottom 11/28/2016 at 15:48

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I’ve never heard of that high of a failure rate with factory T5s, but I do know that there is a reason why the “World Class T5" was an option in the aftermarket.

crowmolly > CobraJoe 11/28/2016 at 16:05

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T5s and even WC T5s really aren’t the greatest for abuse. They are not TKOs.

crowmolly > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 16:06

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89-92 if you can find one in your price range.

Roller cam, MAF, forged pistons and an 8.8 rear.

The T5 will be sketchy regardless.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 16:12

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Curious why you wouldn’t go for an E30 instead? I have one (and am honestly quite intrigued by the foxes as well...fun cheap V8, it’ll be something new) and it’s a great budget car. Prices are steadily rising, but if you are OK with a not so pretty one they’re definitely out there and super easy to tinker with yourself, and the aftermarket + online support is limitless. And you’ll be adding value to something that’s already appreciating just by sitting. Not so sure if a fox body will be shooting upwards anytime soon outside of pristine bone stock/monster mod versions. I know a fox body is a pig and doesn’t handle for shit without a ton of work being put in...but V8s make funny noises that make you smile, so I get it. Really depends on what you want out of the car.

Pixel > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/28/2016 at 16:19

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Price mostly. I can get into an ugly but decent running fox mustang for under $3K, under $1,500 w/o a V8. BMWs in that price range seem to all be clapped out wrecks. And I don’t want to spend the money it would take toe get a solid runner if I’m going to beat it like a rented mule.

I don’t care about appreciating value, because what I want is a rough, nasty looking car that goes like a scalded rat. I want something I can beat the living shit out of, and not stress if I slide it into a wall drifting, or nose into a ditch rallycrossing, because as long as the chassis is still straight I’ll just keep beating on it.

Pixel > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/28/2016 at 16:20

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Also junkyard upgrades for mustangs are plentiful & cheap, and the A/M is cheap too.

I have limited research with it, but it seems like BMW A/M upgrades are not cheap.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Pixel 11/28/2016 at 17:25

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that’s understandable - i’ve gotten to the point where i don’t beat on my E30 quite as much as I used to either. I’ve cleaned it up quite a bit over the years and its worth a decent more than the $1500 I paid for it 12 years ago, but surprising that there aren’t beat up ones out there that might be workable...will definitely follow how your fox body plans go, it’s definitely a great contender for something fun that you can do your own thing to on the cheap, and it’s been on my curiosity radar for the same reasons.

Leonardo DiCabriolet > Future next gen S2000 owner 11/28/2016 at 18:50

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MM is on the same level as Griggs these days, a lot more commonplace as well.

Pixel > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 11/28/2016 at 19:37

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There is going to be a whole lot of nothing happening with the plan for a while. My truck looks like this, so I need to finish the drivetrain swap & front-end rebuild on that before I can even think about buying another project.

Rock Bottom > CobraJoe 11/29/2016 at 10:43

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Yeah, and to be completely fair all of these cars were toys that were always driven hard and put away wet. I’d completely expect that when used by normal humans for normal human things the T5 has a better chance at getting out alive. Since the OP said he’s looking to do rallycross and drifting, which are both super hard on the equipment, I figured my abusive relationship with The Fox was relevant!

Also, I kinda want to buy another Fox now... or maybe a Merkur...

CobraJoe > Rock Bottom 11/29/2016 at 12:56

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I always end up circling back around to wanting a foxbody.

My dream build would be something like a Fairmont wagon converted to 2 door, built 331 with 5 speed behind it, about a 3.27 rear axle, and some choice suspension, brake, and tire upgrades. Heck, throw a set of air shocks on the back with an onboard compressor so I can really use the wagon’s cargo room, and it’d be perfect.

I know it’s an entirely possible build, but every time I search for a project, I fail on step one: Find a Fairmont wagon.

Rock Bottom > CobraJoe 11/29/2016 at 13:09

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I can find no fault with this plan! Using a wagon to go fast while doing wagon things is pretty much ideal. I’m partial to the Futura, myself. I love that slanted back window!

I did drive a nice 331 powered notch a few years back and it was great. It wasn’t undrivably fast, like some of these wild turbo cars people are building. It felt like a perfect “let’s go scare a new Vette on the highway” kind of car.